Interview With Umit Enginsoy, Turkish NTV

NTV: Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for meeting with us again.

Secretary Rice and Foreign Minister Gul had a good meeting. What was the most significant outcome for [inaudible] coming meeting between President Bush and Prime Minister Erdogan?

Assistant Secretary Fried: [Greeting in Turkish]. Thank you for this opportunity.

They had a very good meeting this morning. I had the honor to be present. This was really an occasion to discuss the issues on the table now, the issues both Turkey and the United States are working together and issues of concern before the visit of your Prime Minister. They talked about the launch of the latest phase in our cooperation to end PKK terrorism with the successful mission of General Ralston to the region. They were both satisfied that this had yielded initial, first results and I stress initial and first results, but we have a lot more work to do together and they agreed to do it.

They obviously discussed Middle Eastern issues. Turkey is a major player. Turkey is contributing forces to UNIFIL in Lebanon. There’s obviously a lot to discuss. Turkey has also, of course, good relations with Israel.

So this is a good occasion to do a check of the issues, a very useful meeting.

NTV: Now General Ralston is back from his first trip to the region. What’s next?

Assistant Secretary Fried: What next is further trips to the region; dialogue, maybe trilateral dialogue between the Iraqis, the Turks, and the Americans. We also want to follow up on the initial commitments the Iraqi government has made to shut down PKK operations offices in Iraq. This is very good news. It’s a good step forward, and we’ll be working very closely. The American government will back General Ralston in his mission, and we’ll be working with our Turkish friends and our Iraqi friends.

NTV: General Ralston, one of the first things he said in Ankara was that the military option was the last option to be considered against the PKK. Do you think that’s the right thing to say? Even if you really think that you don’t plan to use military action, is it right to say this publicly? If you do so, don’t you use lose your deterrence? Hasn’t President Bush on Iran, he has repeatedly said all options are on the table. Why can you --

Assistant Secretary Fried: President Bush has also said that the use of military force is the last option. It is never a good option. So General Ralston was correct, but when General Ralston said the use of military force is the last option he was being accurate. But you notice that he, the way he put it made clear that we are determined to see to it that the PKK threat is eliminated.

NTV: So can you say that all options are on the table?

Assistant Secretary Fried: Obviously all options are on the table. The military option is the last option, and we need to do what we can do well before that, and that’s where we’re starting. But we are serious about this business.

NTV: Will General Ralston be responsible for the PKK’s presence in Iraq only, or will he be in touch with, will he be working on the question in Turkey? Will he be meeting with Turkish Kurds including the --

Assistant Secretary Fried: Oh, I don’t want to rule anything in and out, but his focus is not issues inside Turkey. His focus is the PKK threat, and the PKK threat in Iraq and their cross-border actions in Turkey, which are acts of terrorism and acts we condemn.

That really is his mission. Turkey is a democracy. Turkey has come a very long way working with the Kurdish community in Turkey, and that is really not the focus of efforts directly against the PKK.

NTV: What do you think the Iraqi Kurdish groups should do on the PKK matter?

Assistant Secretary Fried: Iraqi Kurdish groups?

NTV: Out of Iraq.

Assistant Secretary Fried: We hope that Iraq develops in the direction of stability, a federal country, a democratic country, a country that is tolerant for its peoples and intolerant of terrorists. We hope that the Kurdish authorities continue to support a single country, a federal country, and as Iraqi order and capabilities increase, the room for the terrorists to operate will become less and less, until it is zero.

NTV: Do you expect it will happen soon?

Assistant Secretary Fried: I don’t know the date. I think we’re off to a good start, now we have to continue.

NTV: Finally, sir, Prime Minister Erdogan and President Bush: what do you think they will discuss?

Assistant Secretary Fried: It’s impossible to predict what two leaders will discuss, but on the agenda are obviously regional issues, whether it’s Israel, Palestine or Lebanon or Iran or Iraq. PKK has come up before, and I imagine it will again. This time there is good news. But also it’s very important to remember that Turkey is a democracy. Not a superficial democracy, not a so-called Islamic democracy. I don’t know what that means. Turkey is a democracy. It’s a secular country with a mostly Moslem population. That is tremendously important. There is a lie sometimes expressed that Moslem countries can’t be democracies. That is complete nonsense, and Turkey’s existence today and the quality of Turkey’s democracy shows that that is a lie. It’s very useful to remind the world that Turkey stands for democracy and it’s true to its own traditions. Very important.

NTV: Another thing, Turkey has presidential elections next year. For example, would this subject come to the agenda?

Assistant Secretary Fried: We don’t interfere in Turkish politics. Americans don’t understand Turkish politics. Sometimes I don’t know whether we fully understand our own politics. Democracies make choices; people make choices. We will work with whatever president the Turkish people and Turkish constitution give us, and happily so.

NTV: NATO Foreign Ministers discussed Afghanistan. Do you want additional Turkish troops to Afghanistan? Especially Turkish troops to the Helmand Province in the south where there is intensive fighting between NATO forces and Taliban?

Assistant Secretary Fried: Let me put it this way. NATO is in action in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban. Turkey has long experience in Afghanistan, dating from the early days of the republic. Turkey has a lot to contribute. Turkey’s military is, of course, famous in its capabilities.

I think it’s important that countries have the ability to contribute do contribute. I also understand that the Turkish Parliament, as other democratic parliaments, will debate any such issues, and there needs to be a consensus. But I hope that all NATO allies will do whatever they can to support the Afghan people.

NTV: One last question. The Pope’s remarks caused reaction in the Muslim world recently. Do you think this was a provocation? Or do you think the reactions were extreme?

Assistant Secretary Fried: Do I think the reactions were a provocation?

NTV: No, the remarks --

Assistant Secretary Fried: Look, I’m not in a position to comment on the Holy Father’s remarks. I do not believe they were a provocation. I think that a dialogue about religions is important to have. A dialogue between cultures is important to have. But as I said before, I think all religions can support democratic political structures. All religions are capable of doing that because religion, certainly the Abrahamic religions -- Judaism, Christianity and Islam -- all are rooted, after all, in an individual’s relationship to the Almighty, and individual responsibility and individual freedom is a basis of, a philosophical basis of democracy. I deeply -- and this is a personal view -- I deeply believe that these religions and all religions can support democracy, and I think that’s a good starting point for a religious dialogue.

NTV: Thank you, Mr. Secretary.

Assistant Secretary Fried: It’s a pleasure. Thank you.