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Interview With Tom Buhrow of ARD German Television

Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Brussels, Belgium
January 26, 2007

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, you came here to pledge additional support for Afghanistan, which is the main topic, more troops, also up to $10 billion more in funding. But you didn't just come to pledge funding of your own; you also came with expectations of what the allies should do. What commitments are you taking away from Brussels from your allies?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I really came to this NATO ministerial to make certain that we all recommitted again to Afghanistan, which I think we all believe is NATO's central, most important mission right now. It has other important missions, but this one is special for the alliance and I wanted to bring us together to talk about what we could do.

There were new commitments around the table, but I hope that in the future there are going to be even more. And I think people will go back, they will talk with their governments, they will talk with their parliaments about what is necessary. But really, this was less about commitments than about making certain that we energize a new comprehensive approach for our policies in Afghanistan, a comprehensive strategy that recognizes the essential importance of the military contribution but recognizes also that the reconstruction and development, the governance issues, the counternarcotics mission must all be a part of a successful strategy in Afghanistan.

QUESTION: And do you know that Germans are particularly proud or keen on the contributions on the civilian side that you mentioned, but there are expectations that we should provide more military contributions, specifically in the south. Were the six reconnaissance planes that are requested by NATO mentioned from the German side?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I know that this is an issue that the German Government will take up in the German political context, and that's fine. That's what democracies have to do. But I think it's important to note that when you're fighting a counterinsurgency or counterterrorism strategy, as we are in Afghanistan, you really have to have the unity of your military efforts with your political and economic and reconstruction efforts. So we had a lot of discussion today about the importance of defeating the Taliban, but also of winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people.

We pledged closer coordination and cooperation. We had a really wonderful meeting with the global partners, with countries like Japan and South Korea, Australia, that NATO would not normally meet with, but we're there together in Afghanistan. The UN was represented there. The World Bank. The European Commission was represented. And so this was really an opportunity to get a look at what everyone is doing and to make certain that there is coordination among donors but also that our military, political and economic efforts are as close as possible.

QUESTION: Germans will like to hear that you emphasized the civilian strategy so much, but I have to emphasize also the reported side about military contributions. If Germany should provide six reconnaissance planes, which is likely actually, is that enough? Or would you and other allies expect actual boots on the ground in the south?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, we understand the complexities of the German situation. We understand Germany's role and how different this is for Germany. And we very much appreciate the contributions that Germany has made in the PRT structure, the contributions that Germany is making to civil affairs. And if Germany is able to make the contribution for reconnaissance, I think that will be a fine, fine step forward.

QUESTION: Thank you for that diplomatic answer. However, Congress is sometimes not so diplomatic, understandably. The Democratic Representative from California, Tom Lantos, was in your office or he came to see you, and he said afterwards he thought it was appalling the lack of will of some allies, meaning specifically Germany and France, to share the burden in Afghanistan. And then he came away and said I think she -- I sensed that Condoleezza Rice agreed with me. Do you agree with him?

SECRETARY RICE: The allies need to do as much as we possibly can do. And I did say today that there are countries that are bearing the brunt of the fighting, for instance, in Afghanistan, down in the south where it's particularly tough going. And an alliance means that we try to share the burden equally. It also means that national caveats, for instance, that limit the ability of troops to move need to be examined and reexamined.

It's also the case that if somebody's in trouble, we need to be able to react because that's what an alliance means. But I think we also have to put this in perspective. I would never have dreamed five years ago or seven years ago or certainly ten years ago that NATO allies would be fighting together in Afghanistan. It would have just been inconceivable. And so this is a big step for NATO, it's a different kind of mission, and I think the allies are adjusting and adjusting quite well.

QUESTION: Let's look for a second at something specific that Germany is doing, it's the police training. It's something where we say as Germans, well, we've trained, I think, up to 17,000 police officers. But there's been criticism there as well. The former Supreme Commander of NATO said, well, the police training is lagging behind. Military expert Cordesman said, well, the Germans basically failed and they wasted three years. What do you think?

SECRETARY RICE: Police training always is harder than training the army. We're learning that in Haiti, we're learning it in Iraq. It's not easy to train police. And I think internationally this is something that needs to be examined. Why is it that we have so much difficulty training police whenever we go into a post-conflict situation? But I know that Germany is working very hard at it. I know that there are new efforts to rethink some of the police training. We, too, have had our troubles in police training in Afghanistan, and I think that most people would tell you that the Afghan Army is, in fact, ahead of the police. It seems to be a condition that we need to work on.

But I appreciate what Germany is doing and I do know that the Germans are concerned, the German Government is concerned that the police training needs to be more effective. We need to say the same thing, by the way, about the police training that we've engaged in in the United States.

QUESTION: Now, there is talk about a spring offensive by the Taliban and we know that the situation there has gotten worse. There's about, I think, 117 or 217 suicide attacks. They have been on the rise. Casualties on the rise in Afghanistan. How do you want to deal or how should NATO deal with a spring offensive?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, one reason that we're having -- we had this meeting today on Afghanistan, and the defense ministers will meet in Seville, is that we did feel that in advance of this so-called spring offensive, which is to be expected -- it happens every spring, it just happened with more intensity last spring than many expected. In advance of that we need to make certain that have the military assets that the commanders need. We need to make certain that we have the kind of coordination that counterinsurgency requires between the reconstruction and development that should follow. When you've cleared out an area, you have to be able to help the population to recover, and that keeps them on your side. So these two go very much hand in hand. We need to be ready for the spring offensive.

But I want to say a word about the Taliban. Yes, after losing the country, being unable to continue ruling, they are in some sense trying to regroup and trying to fight back. But the Karzai government, the Afghan Government, is stronger now than it was. It has better security forces than it had. The Afghan security forces are fighting right alongside all of us. And I don't think that you can call this a strategic threat to the Afghan Government. Unfortunately, violent men can always kill innocent people when they aren't able to take on the armed forces of a country, and that is what you are seeing. But I think that better security, better reconstruction and development, and we will be able to handle this so-called spring offensive.

QUESTION: Now, there's broad support in Congress for the surge in Afghanistan, for additional funding there, but there's a lot less support for a surge in Iraq. As early as next week, there may be a congressional resolution basically condemning the new policy and the new surge there. How can the President and your Administration maintain the engagement in Iraq with that lack of public support?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, the American public also wants us to succeed in Iraq. The President said the other night that whatever has been voted on before in the Congress, nobody voted for failure. And the President has made very clear that after a lot of consideration of the options, a lot of discussion with his commanders, including his new commander David Petraeus, who is a counterinsurgency expert, this is the option that seems to give us the best chance for success, and that is to reinforce the efforts of the Iraqis to stabilize Baghdad with the Iraqis in the lead.

Look, the Iraqis have to decide what kind of country they're going to be. The United States can't decide that they're going to live together, Sunni and Shia, but we can support with capabilities that they do not yet have. And I believe in the final analysis when people ask themselves the question if the commander-in-chief and his new counterinsurgency commanders say that the best way for success in Iraq is to surge 21,000 American forces, I think people will ultimately say all right, we'll have that happen.

QUESTION: You've identified -- your government has identified Iranian influence as a major source of support for the insurgents. How far is the Administration willing to go now with 20,000 new troops coming and interrupting that influence, that support?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, we're going to be very active in disrupting the networks that are making these highly explosive devices that are causing casualties to our troops. It's a matter of troop protection. And we are also concerned about some of the efforts to arm militias that are putting forward death squads. But the commanders have also made very clear -- General Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs -- that this is something we believe we can do in Iraq, that it really does require good intelligence, it requires good cooperation, but it is something that we expect to do in Iraq. And I just want to say, you know, sometimes I'm asked, "Well, why are you escalating this?" We aren't escalating. We're responding to something that Iran is doing that is very dangerous to our forces. And no commander, no government would sit idly by while this was done to their forces.

QUESTION: When we talk about Iranian influence, we also have to talk about their nuclear program. They continue to defy UN requirements, continue to pursue their nuclear program. At the same time there's an increase in U.S. troop presence in the region. Now, we've seen that pattern before and I have to ask you this because every German wonders, does that mean that the U.S. is moving one step closer to a military conflict with Iran?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, the President has been very clear that diplomacy has a lot of work still to do on this Iranian issue. And the international community could not be more united than about the Iranian nuclear issue. We had a Chapter 7 resolution, 15-0 vote. We had very close cooperation, by the way, with the German Government as part of the EU-3 plus the permanent members of the Security Council.

And we believe that the diplomacy has a good chance to work if we remain united. I think you're starting to see voices in Iran that are concerned about the isolation that Iran's President and Iran's program are bringing. Chapter 7 is not a great place to be. You know, that's a very small club of countries that are under Chapter 7 resolution, and I would think that for a country that has a long history and a great culture and really wonderful people that it would be especially appalling to have government policies that put you in the same league with Sudan or North Korea or a number of countries that are going to come out from Chapter 7 like the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Liberia.

So I hope that this will mean that the Iranians will think twice about what they're doing. The international community, the six powers, have offered very attractive incentives for Iran to stop its enrichment and reprocessing activities. The United States has offered to change 27 years of policy and engage Iran directly about its nuclear program. But they need to live up to the demand that is being made of them by the international system.

QUESTION: Before we say goodbye, the German public also is viewing with interest that the presidential race is starting pretty early this season, almost after the midterm elections. So -- and they're also fascinated by you as a person, so let me ask you this. Could you imagine any circumstances under which you would be on a Republican ticket?

SECRETARY RICE: Oh, I'm going back to Stanford.

QUESTION: I want to generate some news here.

SECRETARY RICE: No, maybe the Germans will see me at Stanford in Berlin after that.

QUESTION: Wonderful.

SECRETARY RICE: Thank you.

QUESTION: If I have one more question, I would like to do something -- is that possible?

SECRETARY RICE: Sure, go ahead.

QUESTION: You are familiar with the case that was already during the last administration an issue, the Kurnaz case. I don't know if you were directly involved with it. Can you tell me whether at any point there was an offer of the United States to hand over Mr. Kurnaz to Germany and under what conditions?

SECRETARY RICE: I really don't have anything for you on that. The German Government and the United States Government had great cooperation, but I don't have anything on that specific case.

QUESTION: I was almost expecting that. Okay, good.

SECRETARY RICE: All right, good.

QUESTION: What do you expect at the donor conference next week with Afghanistan?

SECRETARY RICE: With Afghanistan? Well, I think that hopefully, first of all, that people will pay the pledges that they've made, and then look to what can be done on the reconstruction and development side. I understand that a lot is being asked of donors around the world. I understand that. But it's a very special time in international politics when we have some very young democratic states that are struggling. But if they succeed, it's going to be a very different international environment. You think about Afghanistan, Lebanon, the Palestinians who could become the core of a Palestinian state that's democratic and live in peace with Israel side by side, an Iraq that could be a very different Iraq in the middle of the world's most volatile region.

So I hope that as populations and citizens look at the substantial commitment that their governments are making, that they will recognize that this is really in their own interest and for their own security because these could be the pillars of a new stability, a real stability, a democratic stability in the broader Middle East.

QUESTION: Madame Secretary, thank you very much for talking to us and accommodating us here at the residence.

SECRETARY RICE: It's a pleasure to be with you.

QUESTION: Thank you.

2007/T2-8


Released on January 26, 2007

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